So, Bill Foster and Stu Sternberg are going to sit down and talk this week. I have no idea what to expect but, I know exactly what to expect. You know?
Throughout this entire process I have always sort of felt bad for Bill Foster. He is the Mayor of his hometown and is stuck in a no win situation. Either he dooms his neighbors and constituents to a future of paying tax bills (the Trop isn’t paid off yet) while letting the economic impact of the Rays scoot over the bridge to Tampa or, he dooms his neighbors and constituents to an ugly legal battle that will probably only result in them paying tax bills while the economic impact of the Rays scoots to Charlotte or, gulp, contraction.
But in thinking about it yesterday, a thought occurred to me. The question Bill Foster is grappling with (“how do I agree to pay taxes on an empty ballpark?”) might have an answer. St. Pete took that risk when it built a ballpark without a team. Right? Wasn’t the potential for an empty ballpark always in the plan? Shouldn’t the Rays 14 seasons be seen as a benefit, not an entitlement?
I am really asking.
So I put this to the St. Pete taxpayers that are reading (I know there are at least two that are very active): Is the problem that the mayor may lose the team or, is the problem that no previous mayor ever made rainy-day plans for the possibility of an empty ballpark?
Hmm, I’m going to type as I think and maybe I’ll come back and edit it once I make sense of things…or maybe I won’t.
I’ve really been getting into our local politics in St Pete/Pinellas the last year or so, and Mayor Foster is one of the most frustrating parts of our local government. I just never seem to be able to gauge him on issues.
Here’s what I don’t get. If it was an issue of paying for an empty ballpark, then have the city’s number-crunchers come up with the penalty that you expect the Rays/MLB to pay for the lost revenue of the Trop for the remainder of the contract if they do decide to leave St Pete. I never hear about these solutions, only that Foster has these “secret plans” that the Council doesn’t even know about. Why are we content with a beady-eyed Mayor playing Russian roulette with the team I support financially and love?
The way I see it is completely political. In my opinion, the people who are most interested in keeping the Rays in the Trop are the people who care the least but gain the most (ask Foster or anyone on the City Council what position Matt Joyce plays and what side of the plate he swings and let’s see how many correct answers we get). Ask them exactly how much money the city makes on a season of baseball in St Pete. Regardless of how many show up, we still have to pay for the police to direct traffic, work the game, pay the Trop’s light bill on game days, etc…you are telling me every day that the Trop draws 11k the city is increasing its revenue? Doubtful.
Most people I know (locally and in the greater Bay Area) that really love the Rays and support them with tickets and merchandise purchases all year want the Rays to get better digs. I personally want to see them in the Carillon Park/Gateway area. Access to all 3 bay bridges, plenty of infrastructure to build up (unlike almost every option in Tampa/Hillsborough which is already pretty much maxed out), and lots of land (again, measured in acres, not city blocks like Tampa’s options).
Now for the important issue; the money. Here’s the deal, I’m a diehard fan. I think that’s established. I’m also relatively liberal these days, so I support taxes that are specifically purposed and for the greater good of the community. That being said, some of Stu’s postering the last 2 years has really left a bad taste in my mouth for wanting to fork over more cash to them. This is a depressed county in a depressed state, my value of my home is still falling, but the taxes and insurance are somehow still rising. It doesn’t make my pockets jingle. Meanwhile, I have to constantly read in the national media about how the ownership of my team keeps reminding everyone who will listen that their fanbase sucks. “Oh but they aren’t talking about you Merrill, they’re talking about everyone else”. So, not me, just my entire family in Pasco/Hernando counties that love the Rays as much as I do but can’t make the 3 hour round trip every night. Swell, let me purchase another jersey with the expendable income I have left so you can burn it on ESPN.
Arrg, I’m not done but work beckons.
I understand the frustration. But, I also give Stu a pass on some of his comments. It’s hard not to take them personally, but I see it as part of a larger strategy. I don’t think he is as mad as he sounds. I think he needs to sound mad to motivate the powers that be to break the stalemate. Does that make any sense?
Just a thought, but considering that Tropicana was originally built without having a team, why not use it for a Rays farm team, maybe just single A to start with, after the Rays move to a new stadium. A case in point here would be the Atlanta Braves who have a farm team just outside Atlanta, only 30 or so miles to Fulton County Stadium. The Braves also ended their relationship with their farm team in Richmond (VA) just last year because Richmond wouldn’t enhance the facility.
This solves a couple of problems, one being the use of Tropicana, and another being to reduce the Rays costs in supporting their farm teams. I think everyone needs to make the necessary concessions here… I know we do, we being 2 super senior citizens who drive 3 hours each way from Melbourne Beach to see the games.
Keep up the good articles. Thanks, Bob & Jackie
Thanks for the kind words Bob & Jackie.
This is a creative solution at least but I see two glaring problems. First, no way St. Pete could make the same revenue on a minor league team. Second, the Rays don’t have a team close enough to move. I am sure they are locked into Charlotte County for their Florida State League team because, if I’m not mistaken, part of the renovation at CSP was bonded by the County. Montgomery is pretty solid (and selling out). The next closest league is the International League and I see no way the Rays are going to pull their affiliation with Durham. So, unfortunately, I don’t think that is the answer.
Why not repurpose the park for other events though?
I like the creative thinking here. I think that generating revenue for St. Pete is going to be the biggest sticking point. To hit on your point Mark, the Trop could be repurposed. I’m sure if the Rays offered to pay for this remodel it would be a good starting point for discussion. I think we are all putting the cart before the horse here. Facts are unfortunately facts, and the fact is I don’t see any county in central Florida on the cusp of funding a new venue. Given the economic downturn coupled with the scrutiny going on in Miami right now and it’s a bad combination for the Rays. The silver liner here is the Orlando Magic, the city funded that stadium and it seems to have worked out fairly well thus far. There is one big difference though, the Magic were already selling out every night and just moved across the street. The Rays are a scary investment, because there is no guarantee that a new venue in a new location fixes the problem long term. I hope and think it would, but no city invests hundreds of millions based on hope. There are some convincing studies both ways, it’s just a matter of of which study the county in question will believe.
In my mind, the creativity we are waiting for is the funding issue. I think the era of 100% publicly-funded ballparks is either behind us or at least on hold. Allegedly, the Rays had private funding ready to build the waterfront park in St. Pete. They are going to need to cobble something like that together again. I wonder how a ballpark compares to, say, a major corporate headquarters. I read all the time about County Governments luring major companies to relocate here. When they do, they have to build themselves space. How much did Raymond James spend to build their campus in Carrillon? Who funded that? If Raymond James can put that deal together with just incentives, couldn’t the Rays do the same thing?
Instead of moving a minor league team into the Trop it would probably be more feasible to demolish it and if a minor league team were to move, move them to a renovated Al Lang Field. That would make the most sense to me. The city could collect a large amount of money for the sale of the land that the Trop sits on and save even more money with no gameday expenses all summer (police, electric, etc.). Personally, I blame Vince Naimoli. . . and whomever designed the Trop in the first place. They said they used Ebbets Field as the model for it. I don’t see it.
To be clear, the Rays used Ebbetts Field as a model for the rotunda when they renovated the ballpark. The ballpark was built long before Vince (who is a Brooklynite) came along. In fact, the Mets new park has a rotunda in homage to Ebbetts Field as well.
As for the land, that was basically the Rays original plan that was shot down by the voters of St. Pete (the City Charter requires a vote to make any change on the waterfront, and Al Lang is on the waterfront). One of the things that no one really discussed is the Trop’s history. It was an industrial site before it was a ballpark (I think it was an oil refinery or something) and, I always wondered if there were lingering environmental issues buried under that asphalt that would make future development hard.
I remember when I was a kid and I had wished that we got a team in Tampa. In 98′ when we finally got the team I was a senior in HS and worked at the Trop the first 2 seasons, I loved it. Since then (before moving to Oregon) I had tried to go to roughly 30 games a season. Most of my friends are die-hard (so they say) Rays fans but don’t want to make the commute to the Trop. The #1 issue with fan attendance is the lack of public transport, I think this is a given. I think the ideal location would be mid-Tampa somewhere near the Bucs stadium, if they can get 65,000 for a game then we should be able to get 35/38K? I would love to see them kick the Yankees out of Tampa and build where there offices are on the corner of Dale Mabry/Columbus (wishful thinking…HA) or maybe across the street from there and share the parking that the Bucs utilize. I think if you could somehow build in this area you would have the best location for ease of traffic and it could jump start a discussion about better public transport in mid-Tampa. What about even trying to use RayJ as a dual stadium like the Marlins/Dolphins did in Miami? Just a thought….