When I woke up this morning and checked my Twitter feed, I was snowed under with 140-character responses to this piece Steve Berthiaume wrote for the Sweet Spot blog last night. I have promised over-and-over that this space will be reserved for baseball, not business, but I feel compelled to at least respond to Steve. In short, I actually agree with a lot of Steve’s argument but disagree with his ultimate conclusion.
In my opinion, Steve’s piece is the most well-reasoned argument in favor of relocation that I have read to date. I was actually a little disappointed that it was so even handed. I much prefer dismissing relocation talk as the uneducated drivel printed by that lunatic at YES/Forbes. But Steve’s research deserves fair consideration despite our collective knee-jerk reaction.
First, I think it is time for everyone that loves this team to take a step back and at least admit that something is amiss here. Attendance is declining. Television viewership is declining. There are no two ways around it. We who believe that this is a baseball town cannot be taken seriously if we don’t acknowledge that there are real problems.
Moreover, I also agree with Steve’s argument that a new ballpark, even in Tampa, might not be the panacea some folks have implied it would be. The Trop is a huge impediment to the Rays’ success. But it isn’t the only impediment and, it isn’t even the primary impediment.
But, I think Steve’s argument against the market is built on some fundamental misunderstandings about our town.
The Bucs and Lightning cannot be used as measures of the Rays future attendance success because neither franchise is similarly situated to the Rays. The Glazers’ historically contentious relationship with the taxpaying fans of Tampa finally caught up with them in 2010 and, fans chose to punish ownership’s repeated money grabs despite a surprisingly good on-field product. (I know this personally because I chose not to renew our season tickets — thereby waiving the interest free loan I gave the Glazers in the form of a seat deposit — because I was sick of being bilked just to root for my team). Likewise, the Lightning attendance has suffered because they play hockey, in Tampa. That is a tough sell. And it is a tougher sell when considering the mismanagement of Oren Koules and his gang of misfits. The new ownership group and recent on-ice success should remedy that. But, those issues distinguish each team from the Rays.
Steve’s argument in favor of moving is also based on the unsupported conclusions that the market is too old and transient and there is a lack of potential corporate sponsorship without a lot of supporting evidence. The Bucs (and even the Lightning) have sold significant corporate sponsorships despite the overall economic problems in the area. The Bucs and Lightning have also had success selling tickets and merchandise to this old and transient market despite the problems described above.
If the market is old and transient (a description that, in my opinion, is based more on colloquial misinformation than reality) then the Rays need to sell to those people where they live. Old and transient fans have disposable income that they want to use on entertainment. That is a strength of the market, not a weakness. The Rays failure to reach that is internal, not external. Likewise, the Bucs and Bolts have significant corporate sponsorship. There is no evidence in Steve’s piece to suggest that those corporate sponsors would not be similarly willing to spend on baseball. Perhaps the Rays need to look at their internal sales process to determine why they are unable to create more longstanding relationships with the business community.
In the end, I think Steve’s conclusion that the Rays need to move is based on two false premises:
- There is a place for the Rays to go that is better than Tampa.
- Starting a fan base at year 1 is better than waiting for year 20.
Steve inadvertently concedes the first point in his piece by implying that there isn’t another Major-League ready market for the Rays to move to. I made that point last winter in a one-sided debate I had with Peter Golenbock. Basically, the Rays should stay here because their choices aren’t any better.
More importantly, I have not yet seen anyone do an analysis of the growth timeline for expansion franchises. In my experience, every new franchise is going to struggle for market share because their primary audiences (fans of a particular sport) had a favorite team when they popped onto the map. The fans every team courts are loyal. But, loyal fans are not going to just set aside longstanding allegiances because a sports league expands. Thus, for any expansion franchise to succeed, it has to grow its own loyal fan base.
We saw this in Tampa with the Bucs. The Bucs attendance scuffled for a lot of reasons. But, they became an economic force when my generation — the first generation that grew up knowing only the Bucs and therefore loving only the Bucs — joined the workforce and the ticket-buying public.
The Rays deserve that same chance. The generation of Rays fans that were planted at expansion are just 13 years old (that is being generous, you could argue that the Rays really came into existence in 2008). We need at least 10 more years before we know whether or not this market can grow baseball fans like it grew football fans. When I walk around town I see a lot of kids obsessively wearing Rays’ gear. That gives me the gut instinct that it will happen just like it happened for me and the Bucs.
Ten years may seem like a death sentence but, it isn’t. The Rays are making money, just not as much money as they want to make. So they can survive ten more seasons. More importantly, a move to a new market puts them back to year 1, meaning they’d have to wait 18 years or 20 years, instead of 10, to learn if the new market is actually better than Tampa.
In the final analysis, I agree there is a problem. A big problem. I just don’t think it is a problem that calls for an extreme reaction. The Rays need a new park. The Rays need to move to Tampa. But even if neither of those things happen (and the local governmental budgets suggest that they can’t happen…at least not in the next 4-5 years), Tampa at least needs a chance to prove that it is growing baseball fans. The lack of a better alternative means the Rays should stick it out to see what they got.
You know what though, I am perfectly willing and able to be a defensive fan because I’m so sick and damn tired of every ESPN article about the team being REQUIRED to have a stab at attendance.
Ignore the overall decline across the league. Ok fine.
Ignore the fact that Boston and NY haven’t always had 103% attendance…in exponentially larger markets…even during good economies when they won divisons or pennants, they had plenty of years in the past that they didn’t sell even to 60% capacity for the year. That’s fine.
Ignore the fact that only 19% of our population is within 30 minutes of the Trop (lowest by far in all of MLB), and of those 19% most are below median income.
The Rays don’t need to go anywhere, the Trop does. Ok, so maybe Steve is pandering to Bud and using the largest media outlet in sports to put political pressure on St. Pete’s blind mayor. And I’ve said before I’m one of the 19% within distance of the Trop (the only one of my family and friends) and I fully support pressure from MLB to get the team in northern Pinellas (I don’t support Tampa, because I don’t think they can support the traffic volume and our ignorant government continues to keep us in the 1950′s by investing only in roads…anyway…)
If ESPN wants to be Bud’s puppet, power to them, but go ahead and expect the backlash from the 15 fans of the Rays that are sick and tired of that being the only thing that makes headlines, or always has to be a sub-plot of a Rays story.
Well said Merrill. It also doesn’t help when the pictures they use to show the bad attendance are of practice sessions or games in 2004 (Jason Collette found the actual archive pictures).
Those pics are on Rays Index, with a short blog post of his own decrying this crappy journalism. BSPN (not a typo) did issue a semi-sincere apology via Twitter for the snafu of using an image from a 1PM 2005 Devil Rays-Royals game during a hurricane (Ivan) as visual proof that we suck as fans…but whatever, my Insider is cancelled, I stopped listening to ESPN Radio, and 1040AM lost a listener (condolences to PrimeTime, I like that show). Time to be a ghost like BSPN tells me I am.
I AGREE!!!!!! I am thru with S.I.too, the fox network has a good sport site too. And, what business is it to SI as long as there is a team to write about.
I’ve been a fan since day one,through thick & thin just as I was when I lived in NY and supported the Mets,I’m a season ticket holder who lives 3 miles from the Trop but I believe that we need to be closer to Tampa not in Tampa.Most Tampa people don’t support the Rays and you notice that I said people not FANS because if they were baseball fans would come to the Trop.Attendance would be alot better if those so called baseball fans Yankees,Redsox,would come to the Trop not just when there teams are playing they need to support baseball in this town and if they don’t sooner or later they will not be able to see there team unless they go back to there home town.WAKE UP TAMPABAY keep baseball here.
Steve Berthiume and the rest of the Trop haters need to go dig a six foot ditch and shoot themselves in the face. I lived in Dallas, Texas for 11 years and was an avid Texas Rangers fan during my stay. I easily attended 25 games a year and lived 30 to 45 minutes outside of Arlington. I sat in 110 degree games year round, and sweated my butt off while cheering for a sub par team, but the fact remains: I WAS A LOYAL FAN. Anyone who says the Trop is a bad location is correct in one rational reason…The Trop should have been made closer to Raymond James stadium or the St.Pete Times Forum. Where the Rays and MLB placed it not only cut off pansy Tampa fans who are afraid to drive across a bridge, but more importantly the entire Orlando market. The Trop is the perfect stadium for the Rays. My number one argument for this is our young pitching, because of the low scoring runs; a young pitching staff flourishes in the trop, while power laden teams like the Yankees and Red Sox are forced to play the rays way to beat them at their own game. Tampa fans are possibly the worst fans in sports, and I believe baseball is the most glaring spot, because of the length of the schedule. It has always been my theory that MLB will do whatever it can to tarnish the Public perception of the rays: citing Bud Selig’s negative comments to even opposing managers negative takes. If Bug Selig thinks a new stadium is inappropriate maybe he should have delivered back in ’93 and ’96 when the White Sox and Giants were considering the Tampa bay Area, instead they built the stadium and let it sit for 5 years as a multi-purpose facility. Lastly, let me close in saying “you think attendance is poor now?” Wait till we have an outdoor stadium and people bitch about 120 percent humidity and rainouts.
Does anyone remember that when the proposal for the Suncoast Dome (what we know as Tropicana Field now)was forwarded, Tampa/Hillsboro declined to have it in their municipality because they were facing bankruptcy? St Pete/Pinellas was solvent. That is why the Dome is where it is.
Great response Mark. I was mad when I first read the piece but on re-reading you’re right that he does at least have some good points.
Perhaps it’s because these kind of stories have been written before, or perhaps it’s my own internal bias, but I felt that large chunks of the piece came across as a bit lazy and fairly easy to refute (as you did above). Comparing anything about the Rays and Lightning seems tenuous at best (the Islanders, Coyotes and Thrashers ranked at the bottom of attendance in the NHL so I presume we’re going to talk about moving the Yankees, D’backs and Braves too right) and I’m not sure what point is he driving at with that line of argument. Tampa is a bad sports town? Florida is a bad sports state? I get that corporate sponsorship is a big deal but, as you point out, the Bucs and Lightning have actually done okay, even if you accept that such comparisons are worthwhile.
Also, the constant comparisons to the Yankees/Red Sox are not helpful. How many other teams can generate the kind of revenue these two giants can? Do the Pirates, A’s and Royals etc all have their own TV network too? Last time I read the Forbes rankings, the bottom 10 or so teams basically had the same revenue levels as each other.
I think the best response is the one you made regarding the length of time it takes for a fan base to grow. How many of the issues he raises are solved by moving? Escaping the Trop I guess, but he says himself that is not the only issue. Overall I found the piece to be kind of unstructured and he kind of wandered through several issues without ever hitting on anything too concrete. Of course there is a problem with attendance but I’m not convinced he explained that (a) the issue is fatal or (b) proposed anything close to a solution. Next time on the blog: steroids are bad, inter-league play is unfair – get a new story guys.
The issue I left unsaid, because I am not sure how to measure or raise it, is Major League Baseball’s abandonment of everyone other than New York and Boston. In its desire to grow that rivalry and milk every dollar out of it (something MLB is responsible for) it totally neglected every other franchise. So, we have two “national” franchises and 28 uber-local ones. That means when the Rays succeed, every casual baseball fan is disappointed because they have been spoon-fed the NY-BOS line.
That absolutely effects the local market. (The Yankees violate the Rays territorial rights with their local radio broadcasts).
Honestly, I feel no one will take baseball in Tampa Bay seriously unless there’s any sort of conscious effort to free themselves off the Yankees. Let’s face it folks, if you really want someone to blame, blame all those responsible for keeping Tampa, the Yankees spring training home.
Doing that, you’re always going to be faced with a polarized fan base in an already small-market town.
I’ll put it another way, with all this talk about re-alignment, what would be so wrong with moving the Rays to the NL East? At least you don’t have to worry about wanting to push the Yankees out of Tampa. So everybody wins. Because how it is now, it would be as ridiculous as the Mets and Cubs moving into their crosstown rival divisions.
Do you think that playing in the Al East – and hence the front pages of ESPN – hurts the public perception of the Rays? Their issues are very much out there for everyone to see where as teams like the Padres, Dbacks and, until lately, A’s can kind of tick along without really upsetting anyone? I am going to look into this, but I cannot believe the difference in revenue/attendance etc between the Rays and 15-20 other teams is bigger than the difference between the Yankees and everyone else. I know for a fact living in Toronto that the Jays have similar problems of their own (crappy stadium, low attendance, baseball is not the main sport here, most people don’t live in downtown and so face a commute on trains that stop running at 9pm).
I think one of the primary factors is that the Rays started to become a contender at a bad time given its location at one of the areas where the recession hit the hardest.
I have a theory that it wouldn’t be so prevalent if they started getting good before the economy really started to hit the tank.
Yes, I think as long as they’re in the AL East, the Rays will only be made to suffer. The only thing they can really keep doing is just win and make the best of it.
This perfect storm is definitely under-reported, but it is becoming a bit of a thin excuse as the economy starts to turn and attendance gets worse.
Ok, attendance is getting worse. Are we to resign that the Bay area is unworthy of a Major League franchise or never prepared? I mean even the Marlins, winners of two pennants have had similar problems. I would go and so that maybe Florida with melting pot of transplants shouldn’t have their own Major League Baseball franchises then since the league’s strongest fan bases have their Spring Training (i.e.: Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox) here. Forget hope that those fans will GOD-FORBID consider to change their allegiance.
He does his best to trash the entire Tampa Bay sports fan community while being “polite” about it. I would say his entire argument might as well be, “Tampa Bay, there are SOME passionate fans, can’t realistically sustain a sports franchise.” He singles out the Rays for the most part. He makes some solid points, but brings nothing new to the table that haven’t been already beaten to death.
As much as Tampa has being the whipping boy for sports fandom, let me just say the recession HIT EVERYBODY. The economy’s so bad the “premium” games against rivals Yanks and Red Sox aren’t selling out at the Trop, while previous years it would. Hell, even the Yanks and the Rex Sox home games aren’t always selling out.
Realistically, you can’t even compare those two big markets when you have such a greater pool in those cities, you can draw from.
No one, certainly not from the the big sports networks are talking when their “favored” teams don’t make it an issue when they don’t sell out a home game, because the national media would have you believe that Tampa Bay is the ONLY area that has these problems.
That stung me too, because I grew up here and love this town. But, let’s be honest, we aren’t the most dedicated sports fans in the country. I think we have to at least acknowledge this problem before we can move beyond it. Right?
Saying that you’re not “the most dedicated sports fans” isn’t the same thing as you’re the least.
Sorry I admit, we don’t bleed Ray blue or Buccaneer Pewter through and through as Packer fans bleed green, but so what?
The national sports media believe our teams our too good to deserve to be wasted on this fickle market.
So what? Does that make this area bandwagoners? Fair-weather fans? You know what? Up until recently, Boston haven’t been selling out Fenway in light of their struggles in recent years. They’ve only been really selling out frequently this year because they’re in first place. What about during their horrible start?
If THE economy wasn’t such a major issue, then you have those Ray games against the Red Sox and Yankees sell out because their fans here would buy them up.
Gee, must be that dang economy monster that only wants to hit the Tampa market.
Anyway my last point is, I think it’s time to move on when you have the fans, management, and ownership not give a crap whether or not you stay. As far as I know, management still wants to stay, but finding it difficult to work with them. They haven’t issued any sort of ultimatum. At least, not yet. So far I don’t think it’s as crystal clear as people are making it out to be.
If you really want to know what it’s like to lose a franchise or gauge how bad things can be, just think about how it is in LA now? Lost not one, but two NFL franchises in the same year. They might also be in danger of losing the Dodgers. Hey, at least they have the Lakers, Clippers and Kings right? How about ‘dem Expos and Thrashers?
Actually, the Red Sox sell out their home games. They have for 700+ games.
Well, not really. http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-04/news/31575397_1_sellout-ticket-office-fewer-tickets
I remember going to one of the first Ray games back in the nineties…the Trop is an air-conditioned field which is a blessing and a curse, but you ultimately need it on those hot and humid days. I agree with Mark…get the folks out of the nursing homes and strip joints to watch some baseball…it will take time to do this and the employment and housing situation in Florida will ultimately need to improve…but Tampa is not the answer…same dynamic there…folks drive everywhere around the Bay area…it’s a 40 minute drive to St. Pete at the most…if the Howard-Franklin is backed up, take the Courtney and go down US19…no big deal…fans in New York, Boston, Chicago drive just as much…A few more winning seasons and the numbers will jump back up.
Those other cities you mentioned there also have more reliable and efficient means to get to the stadium a la public transportation. The ONLY form of public transportation outside of a taxi is the trolley that runs only in downtown St. Pete.
You sure as hell not going to see any dedicated efforts from Tampa to make some kind of program that transports fans to Rays games.
This is a really good point that no one has written. There is only one way to get to the Trop. But, there isn’t enough political will or money to build BOTH mass transit and a ballpark and, there isn’t enough reason to build a ballpark without transportation. It feels like a Catch 22.
i will say a quick thing about going to games in Los Angeles…there is no mass transit system to get to Dodger Stadium or Angels Stadium. Dodger game attendees are 90% of people who live in the East LA area, because coming from West LA is such a nightmare. 90% of Angels game fans come from the orange county area, because coming from LA is a typical nightmare.
it just so happens there are more people out here in the areas surrounding these stadiums willing to go to games than in the area surrounding the trop.
If we hire Lou Brown, get a cardboard cutout with peelable parts and get some of Jobu’s rum…this team won’t go anywhere.
Bob Ueker isn’t getting any younger, but I’m sure he’s still full of zingers. Too bad he isn’t on TV more often outside of Brewers games. I enjoyed him in Major League, Mr. Belvedere, and even that one Wrestlemania appearance.
*Uecker
Lou Brown just died. Too bad.
but his spirit lives on with every set of whitewall tires sold, every contract that literally gets peed on and everytime someone uses the phrase “s#!tburger”.
Yeah they don’t make movies like that anymore.
Or my personal favorite: “you may run like Hayes, but you hit like s***.”
Is there really anything different here than what has taken place with Major League Baseball for decades? Most cities where MLB has wanted a new venue or major renovations has been told that it just simply isn’t a baseball town. When Stu Sternberg said early last season that the organization wasn’t expecting miracles and just was hoping to see attendance move up towards league average, it began drifting upwards. This as most of the league attendance in general was still shifting downward. But then the infamous Special Announcement took place and the threats of build it or we will leave were met with Rays fans switching on the TV instead of starting their cars. It is still a tough economic time and people will do what they can. but NOT when their effort is met with insult. WHY is that such a difficult thing for many to understand? Is it because Major League Baseball has been successful with these tactics so many times and everyone just assumes they can be thugs and call themselves righteous all at the same time? Is it because fans in other cities would have to admit that when their time came they simply rolled over and took it? Is it just any good old excuse to slam the fans of the team that’s done the unthinkable: shown the Sox and Yanks to be mere mortals? Or some combination? No matter what the reasons for ignoring that we’ve all seen this before, we’ve all seen this before.
To some extent, I agree with this. A lot of this hullabaloo is straight out of the “get a new ballpark” playbook.
I really think that it’s all just noise. After the ’08 season, the Rays signed the new deal with FOX. It was a very cheap deal for FOX, as was their Marlins deal. At the time, the Rays deal was at least $25Million/year below market and that without taking into consideration possible growth in ratings from a World Series team. Ratings increases that proved very much to be true. But what the Rays (and Marlins) got was very good statewide TV coverage of nearly every game. ’08 was the deep step into the economic fall. A fall that, at that time, was still being presented nationally as very possibly the next Great depression and one that could be worse than the first one. By mid-season ’10, we were to believe that the Rays expected better growth in attendance, at a time when attendance nationally was in its 3rd year of decline. To believe that they actually expected better attendance is to believe that simultaneously, they DID NOT expect greater TV viewership and therefore took the deal FOX offered. So essentially, the official position has been that they expected more people to pay to come to the games but they didn’t expect more people to turn on the television sets? The real bottom line is that they (Rays FO & MLB) never did expect any attendance increases. They knew that to expect such would be folly. But we endure the show nonetheless.
That is interesting information about the TV deals. I don’t know what they expected but, if your information is correct, I think you raise a good argument as to how serious this revenue crisis really is.
I thought they signed the new deal right before the ’08 season (a year or two before the current one was up), and then kicked themselves all year as they progressed to the world series.
Here is an interview with Steve Berthiaume – http://www.620wdae.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?podcast=steveduemig_01&selected_podcast=2011-06-23_Steve_Berthiaume_with_big_dog_1308866071_15232.mp3 – judge it for yourselves.
Interesting. I will listen tonight. We’ll have a Q-and-A with Steve for Monday. Let me know if you have any questions.
If not Tampa, then where would a suitable market be for the Rays? Does he think Tampa is a viable pro-sports market since he also brings up the Lighting and Bucs “problems?”
I am glad he grilled him on that interview, Mr. Berthiaume really comes across poorly on that interview. After reading the article I wasn’t really fired up, but after the interview I don’t like him at all. He is saying that he wrote the whole article on hear say.
I wish the yankees get out of Tampa. I hate driving on dale mabry and seeing that nasty stadium. Then I want the rays to build a stadium here. Attendance will rise. I already go to a lot of games at the Trop, but if they were in Tampa I would probably become a season ticket holder.. I would be torn up if the rays were to leave
Where in Tampa do you suggest? There are a lot of options but each has its own travel issues.
Obviously the ESPN blogger makes some points, but ultimately what bothers me is why this is the only thing ESPN will talk about regarding the Rays. Unless we’re playing the Yankees or Red Sox, we get 10 second highlight clips on SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight, and very little or no discussion or analysis. But they’ll happily post blogs and have lengthy conversations about our attendance. Given ESPN’s obvious pro-Red Sox/Yankees bias, it comes across like the cool guys who run the country club being offended when a kid in jeans and tennis shoes starts winning club championships. They can’t trash our talent, our work ethic, our front office or our manager, so they trash our attendance. Baltimore, with an awesome stadium and rich baseball history, sucks out loud and draws barely more than we do – anyone suggesting that the Orioles relocate? Or even talking about their attendance at all? Maybe we should go back to losing 90 games a year and ESPN can shut the f*** up about how many people go to our games.
Sorry for the lengthy rant…
Rant away, this is the place for it.
As for Baltimore, that is a fair point that no one has raised. In fact, I didn’t even think of it.
Way to feed the ESPN editorial hacks.
In the AROUND THE SWEETSPOT NETWORK box on their site, they linked to your full blog but only included your comments that fully support
Boston Berthiaume’s blog.
That is because they are communist bastards.
I don’t think that is an unfair summary of my point. We need to move the discussion away from asking whether there is a problem (an argument we lose) to talking about a solution (an argument we can still win).
I thought I would share with you what I posted on Steve’s article.
This is one of the worst researched and over discussed topics in the MLB. Tampa is a city of transplants (Including me), some eventually adopt the local teams, but for the most part fans have to be raised. There are tons of kids donning Rays gear walking with their parents who are sporting NYY/BOS/ATL hats. Kids that have grown up with nothing but the Rays are now 13 years old, a solid 5-10 years away from being a ticket/ merchandise purchasing fan base. The problem is that expansion teams are ordinarily terrible for a long time, thus they stay out of sight and out of mind. The Rays, through excellent management, were able to thrust a decade old franchise into the spot light and keep it there thus far. The fan base has not caught up, and no amount of success is going to force fans of other teams to convert. Mr. Berthiaume called into 620 wdae in Tampa after writing this and proceeded to look like a fool, he basically admitted he regurgitated word of mouth information with no credible sources. His entire argument was that Tampa is at a competitive disadvantage in the AL East where the Yankees and Red Sox lord over all like the empire trying to crush the rebellion. His point is foolish, all of the remaining 28 teams in the league are at a competitive disadvantage to the Yankees and Red Sox, why single out the Rays? They have proven for three years now that good scouting and trading can with excellent management and coaching trumps money. The Rays are not losing money, no team in MLB is. Apparently ESPN can not recall the leaked documents from Forbes. Steve would prefer to take the owners word that “We can’t keep this up.” What does he expect an owner looking for a tax funded stadium to say? Look in Minnesota, the Vikings ownership is threatening to leave if they don’t get a new stadium, and they aren’t bound by a lease. I don’t think anyone believes they are packing up anytime soon.
The second issue here is comparing the Rays attendance woes to the Bucs and Lightning. Once again research would tell anyone this correlation makes no sense. Look at these figures:
Lightning attendance 2002-2003: 16th
2003-2004: 12th
2004: N/A
2005-2006: 2nd
2006-2007: 3rd
2007-2008: 8th
2008-2009: 21st
It didn’t improve until this season…. The Bucs are a similar story, both teams had a dedicated fan base that the owners pushed away rapidly. In Tampa, the Glazers are disliked because they dedicated all of their money to soccer despite the decline in their on field product. The Lightning similarly had horrible ownership and management. Who wants Melrose back?
The Rays by comparison haven’t yet grown the fan base of these two teams. The Lightning attendance with our new ownership, management, coaching, and players will continue the upswing in attendance. The Bucs have some serious patching to do, but the Rays have a great relationship with the locals. As soon as their fans come of age, they will have no issues, provided they avoid the mistakes that cost the Bucs and Lightning so dearly.
Please research before spewing this mindless dribble again Mr. Berthiaume.
What Steve Berthiaume is advocating here is a loss of income for a steadily developing St. Pete downtown and a fragile economy in the Bay Area whose unemployment rate is closer to 20% then 9%.
The Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, etc…have a combined history of hundreds of years of baseball to build their base. We have had what 13 years?
Why don’t I go up to NY or Boston and advocate the loss of some industry up there and see how that would be tolerated.
Let’s not sit idlely by and allow ESPN to constantly rip on the stats they manipulate to make us look like a bunch of losers.
In his responses to the Ray Area he can’t even take responsibility for the horrible picture of the Trop’s attendance. Headline and picture are not his fault…well Steve where do you stand on freedom of press to allow your editors manipulate your blog??? Sophmoric shock value at best. Your a talking head that does not deserve to have an “opinion” because you are certainly not an objective reporter but rather a tool of ESPN’s interests.
You know what? I think Bristol is too cold a weather town for ESPN. Shouldn’t they move here in the warm weather? We can play most sports year round here? I mean the economy can support the loss off ESPN in Bristol, CT right?
Mark, don’t let him off so easily…words matter and irresponsible one’s should be challenged. We know the issues and the area. He is a carpet bagger at best.
They need a new stadium. ..Selig said he reviewed to some degree the recently released report of the ABC Coalition a group of businessmen that spent more than a year studying the Rays stadium situation…The Coalition found that the Rays need a new stadium that its not viable to renovate Tropicana Field and that a more central location makes the most sense…Selig wouldnt address any of the particulars saying each team understands its own market best. But he said that for the Rays to compete economically they need a new ballpark much sooner than when their Tropicana Field lease expires after 2026… Im not going to put a timeframe on it but forget the lease running out he said. That isnt even debatable. ..That Selig came out strong in support of a new stadium was no surprise.
Also, this could be proof that we don’t need a new stadium. Right? I mean, I am not likely to change my “never agree with Bud, ever” policy any time soon.
Bspn\yes network2 need to get a reality check all espn shows on the afn network in camp hovey show are ny bos and la
thats it most of us hate ny and boston so we watch la and
toy with ideas institute a salary cap one problem solved
and tax teams that have thier own networks speakin seligs
language money and berthumes a duche go mlb network